342 | Culture is Your Competitive Advantage with Mark Batterson | 10 Years of 4Sight

Is culture really a competitive advantage, or just something you deal with when there's time? After a decade of this work, Jenni's answer is that it's the whole thing — because growth doesn't create your culture problems, it exposes them. In this conversation, Jenni sits down with Mark Batterson (https://www.markbatterson.com/) , lead visionary of National Community Church (https://national.cc/) in Washington, D.C., New York Times bestselling author, and author of Not My Circus (https://www.markbatterson.com/books/n...) , to talk about what thirty years of building culture on purpose actually looks like. This episode kicks off 10 Years of 4Sight, a series marking 4Sight's 10th anniversary with the leaders Jenni has been privileged to serve alongside. Mark's team was one of the first to take a chance on her, and they've worked together on strategic planning, multi-site strategy, org design, and team dynamics across nearly the entire history of the company. Mark's story started small and unglamorous. Coming off a failed church plant, he and a core group of 19 people began meeting in a D.C. public school. Average attendance that first year was 20-25. Monthly giving was around $2,000, and the rent was $1,600. It took five years to grow from 19 to 250. Three decades later, that same church has planted a network of churches, owns a debt-free city block on Capitol Hill, and still runs on a mindset Mark sums up simply: everything is an experiment. Jenni and Mark dig into the culture barometer he uses to check himself, why values have to be lived creatively instead of codified and hung on a wall, and what it costs to build the kind of team culture that holds under growth. They share candidly about the seasons of leadership that require a leader to change, and why Mark decided to write a book he knew would cost him something. What You'll Hear • Why healthy culture turns growth into fuel, and unhealthy culture turns growth into a threat • The NCC origin story: 19 people, a rented D.C. public school, and a long obedience in the same direction • Why leading one church for 30 years has meant leading 17 different churches, and how to tell which season you're in • What changed when Mark traded the title of Lead Pastor for Lead Visionary, and how he decided where his value actually sits now • Mark's culture barometer: when you walk into the room, does the anxiety level go up or down? • Leading with non-anxious curiosity, and the difference between a "here I am" leader and a "there you are" leader • Inside the Play and Pray Retreat, the three-day gathering for staff plus spouses and kids, and why Mark defends the line item • Why values only stick when you find creative, human ways to live them out • Giving leadership away, teaching-church thinking, and building a pipeline for the next generation • Mark's encouragement: reserve the right to get smarter later Connect with Mark Batterson • Website: https://www.markbatterson.com/ • Book: Not My Circus (https://www.markbatterson.com/books/n...) — releases October 20, 2026 • Church: https://national.cc/ We need your help to get the LeadCulture podcasts in front of more leaders! There are three simple things you can do that truly help us: 1. Review us on Apple podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...)   2. Subscribe - we’re available wherever you listen to podcasts. 3. Share - let your friends know about the podcast by sharing your favorite episode on social media!