Episode 11 - Dr Jack Barrie

Dr Jack Barrie, lead author of the World Economic Forum report The Future of Materials Systems, joins Iain Gulland and Wayne Hubbard to discuss how geopolitical tension is changing the way countries treat materials, and what that means for the circular economy and COP31 in Antalya. Jack argues that shared material flow accounting and metrics should come before targets, and that coalitions of countries and companies can make progress while the multilateral system stalls. Guest: Jack Barrie, global circular economy advisor who has worked at the World Economic Forum, Chatham House and Zero Waste Scotland. Hosts: Iain Gulland, former Chief Executive of Zero Waste Scotland, past President of ACR+ and Chair of the Circular Economy Institute's Strategic Advisory Committee, and Wayne Hubbard, former CEO of ReLondon, Circular Economy Advisor, speaker and trustee. IN THE CONVERSATION The WEF report: Jack describes a record 226 critical mineral trade restrictions in 2025, up from 82 in 2024, and why businesses now see circularity as a security measure. "Coalitions of the doing": why Jack says plurilateral groups, for example on data traceability standards, can make progress when the multilateral system is declining. Is COP the place for this? Jack says he is more cynical about the proposed 15% circular material use target, and wants a coalition to build metrics for measuring material flows first, using the Paris Agreement's transparency framework as a template. Cities, regions and whole-of-government approaches, and why Jack says trade matters: onshoring circular activity can raise prices where a country lacks scale. Materials in the just transition agenda and competition for critical minerals. The case for an international materials data hub, and why Jack says trade codes do not capture refurbished goods. Wayne and Iain reflect that the destination is a low carbon metals and materials economy, with the circular economy as the pathway. CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction 00:56 Jack's work on the circular economy 02:17 The WEF Future of Materials Systems report 03:37 Geopolitics and material value chains 08:01 Is COP the place for this? 11:43 The COP action agenda 13:18 Why Jack is cynical about COP31 targets 16:25 Governance, cities and whole-of-government 20:46 Materials and the just transition 22:28 Competing for materials 27:52 The international materials data hub 32:41 Trade and the circular economy 37:09 Magic policy wand 40:29 Wayne and Iain reflect on the conversation REFERENCED The Future of Materials Systems (World Economic Forum, 2026) https://www.weforum.org/publications/... COP31 materials proposals (Climate Home News) https://www.climatechangenews.com/202... Like, comment and subscribe. Suggest guests or send questions to unfolding@unfoldcc.com YouTube:    / @unfoldingcircular   About Unfolding: exploring circularity progress and how we can accelerate the transition and combat linear lock-in. Series one leads to COP31.