Punk Rock HR Ep 315: Reference Checking with James Lord

James Lord has seen job offers rescinded because of what came back in a reference check. Those are the problems, he says, that a polished resume and interview won’t show you. In this episode of Punk Rock HR, Laurie Ruettimann sits down with James, who joined Swedish reference platform Refapp in 2025 after nearly 20 years in HR tech. They get into the need-to-have case for reference checking, especially for roles that come with trust and access, and why AI-polished resumes and part-time office schedules make it harder to know who you’re hiring. 📌 Topics covered: How reference checks differ from background checks Why candidates shouldn’t get to pick just anyone as a reference Building reference questions around what top performers have in common Getting references when company policy says no The counterproductive work behaviors interviews miss How one reference turned into a new candidate ⏳ In this video: 00:00 - Intro 02:33 - References vs. background checks 03:53 - Taking the subjectivity out of references 06:38 - The ROI of checking references 08:40 - How Refapp works inside the ATS 09:54 - Who writes the reference questions 11:46 - Keeping reference answers confidential 13:09 - Getting around no-reference company policies 15:50 - The risks of skipping reference checks 19:01 - Making the need-to-have case 21:04 - Winning over reference check skeptics 22:19 - How Refapp differs from competitors 24:29 - Marathons and life outside work 26:33 - James’s upcoming DisruptHR talk Start your extended free trial of Refapp: https://www.refapp.com/hey-laurie-friend Learn more about Refapp: https://www.refapp.com Connect with James Lord on LinkedIn:   / jameswlord   Order Your Copy of Betting on You: How to Put Yourself First and (Finally) Take Control of Your Career ▶︎ https://laurieruettimann.com/books/ More Punk Rock HR from Laurie Ruettimann Punk Rock HR Podcast ▶︎ https://laurieruettimann.com/podcast/ Blog ▶︎ https://laurieruettimann.com/blog/ Book Laurie to speak at your event ▶︎ https://laurieruettimann.com/speaking/ Contact ▶︎ https://laurieruettimann.com/contact/ LINKEDIN:   / laurieruettimann   INSTAGRAM:   / lruettimann