Season 6, Episode 5: Stay Curious A Little Bit Longer with Michael Bungay Stanier

What happens when the person being coached is exceptionally good at avoiding what actually matters? In this episode of Leadership: The Secret Sauce, we sit down with Michael Bungay Stanier, bestselling author of The Coaching Habit, for a candid conversation about coaching, leadership, organizational change, curiosity, and the messy reality of helping people move forward. Michael shares the unexpected experiences that shaped his approach—from crisis counseling and innovation consulting to coaching, writing, and building a mission around making possibility contagious. He also gets remarkably honest about his own experience as a coaching client, admitting that he can use speed, intelligence, and persuasion to redirect a coaching conversation and avoid doing the hard things. We explore why great coaching isn't about having all the answers, why leaders need to resist the urge to become the “Advice Monster,” and why a simple, practical question can sometimes be more powerful than an elaborate framework. Michael also challenges conventional approaches to organizational change, questions the role of dedicated change teams, and explains why he believes coaches need to get much clearer about who they serve and the problems they actually solve. “I can do misdirection around coaching calls so that I get the coach colluding with me to avoid actually doing the hard things.” A conversation about what happens beneath the surface of leadership—and what it takes to create genuine progress rather than simply having a good conversation. 🎧 Listen to the full episode of Leadership: The Secret Sauce and follow the show for more conversations with extraordinary coaches and leaders.