The Art of Not Knowing: Relational Wisdom in Psychedelic Therapy

Harvey Schwartz, PhD, is the Co-founder and Psychedelic Psychotherapist at Polaris Insight Center, a San Francisco clinic and training center specializing in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. A licensed psychologist with more than four decades of experience, he treats complex PTSD, dissociative disorders, and spiritual and therapy-related trauma. Harvey also trains and mentors clinicians, drawing on relational psychodynamic, archetypal, existential, and mindfulness approaches to advance ethical, integrative psychedelic care. Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn: • [00:00] Introduction • [3:25] Harvey Schwartz, PhD, shares his journey from treating dissociative disorders to entering psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy • [5:47] How a chance MAPS training placement led to the founding of Polaris Insight Center • [9:52] Why Harvey views the therapeutic relationship — not the medicine — as the foundation for healing • [14:46] Managing client expectations around breakthroughs and transformational experiences • [20:34] How to practice accompaniment and uncertainty during psychedelic therapy • [24:24] The healing value of restoring joy and wonder • [35:41] How Harvey understands the effects of separation consciousness • [40:36] Ontological shock after life-changing psychedelic experiences • [51:23] Creating space for honest feedback within the therapeutic relationship • [57:34] Harvey’s concerns about the future of psychedelic therapy In this episode… Psychedelic therapy can open new viewpoints, but the experience itself is only one part of meaningful change. Lasting healing depends on how the work is integrated within a trustworthy therapeutic relationship. What helps clinicians support transformation without trying to control it? Psychologist Harvey Schwartz, PhD, argues that clinicians can support transformation through accompaniment rather than control. He encourages therapists to tolerate uncertainty, invite honest feedback, and examine their own countertransference so clients do not have to perform progress for the clinician. Expectation management, community support, and respect for the nonlinear nature of recovery can help clients carry insights into daily life. These practices create a more ethical and deeply human framework for psychedelic care. In this episode of Living Medicine, Dr. Sandy Newes talks with Harvey Schwartz, PhD, Co-founder and Psychedelic Psychotherapist at Polaris Insight Center, about why relational depth should remain central to psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. Harvey explains how humility strengthens care, why integration requires community, and what commercialization could cost the field. He also touches on countertransference and the healing role of wonder. Resources mentioned in this episode: • Dr. Sandra (Sandy) Newes on LinkedIn -   / sandynewes   • Living Medicine Institute - https://livingmedicineinstitute.com • Harvey Schwartz, PhD, on LinkedIn -   / harvey-schwartz-0626901a6   • Polaris Insight Center - https://www.polarisinsight.com/ • Polaris Ketamine and Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy Training Program - https://www.polarisinsight.com/kaptra... • Dialogues With Forgotten Voices: Relational Perspectives On Child Abuse Trauma And The Treatment Of Severe Dissociative Disorders by Harvey L Schwartz - https://a.co/d/0fsHljqC • The Alchemy of Wolves and Sheep: A Relational Approach to Internalized Perpetration in Complex Trauma Survivors by Harvey L Schwartz - https://a.co/d/00HAl4Tj • Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) - https://maps.org/ • Phil Wolfson, MD - https://philwolfsonmd.com/ • Ketamine Training Center - https://theketaminetrainingcenter.com/ • “MDMA, Ketamine, and Other Tools for Working With Trauma” with Veronika Gold on Living Medicine - https://livingmedicineinstitute.com/m... • “Attunement, Ethics, and the Inner Directed Approach in Psychedelic Therapy” with Eric Sienknecht on Living Medicine - https://livingmedicineinstitute.com/a... • “Why Does Studying Adverse Effects Improve Psychedelic Treatment?” with Roman Palitsky on Living Medicine - https://livingmedicineinstitute.com/w... Sponsor for this episode... This episode is brought to you by the Living Medicine Institute. LMI is a training, resource, and membership program educating providers about the legal and safe use of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. To learn more or participate, visit https://livingmedicineinstitute.com. Powered by Rise25 Podcast Production Company - https://rise25.com/