We've merged! Finura and Vokke have joined forces to become an AI powerhouse

This episode brings together Pete and John Wellman, CEO and co-founder of Vokke, for a wide-ranging conversation about software, wealth tech, AI, and what it really takes to build reliable products in regulated industries. We discuss how AI is changing software development, why vibe coding can create more problems than it solves, and why financial services and other high assurance sectors still need deterministic workflows, security, and human oversight. John gives a concrete security example from a client review where a cursory OWASP Top 10 assessment exposed about 40 serious vulnerabilities, showing why AI tools alone are not enough. The conversation contrasts deterministic workflows with AI-driven systems, arguing that regulated products need a workflow-first approach with AI used at specific controlled steps, not as the primary decision-maker. They discuss the future of Vokke and Finura coming together more closely to serve institutional clients, especially in wealth tech and other highly regulated verticals. Links: https://www.vokke.com.au/ https://www.advicedesigner.com/ https://finuragroup.com/ Chapters: 00:00 - Introducing a different kind of episode with John Wellman 00:44 - How Pete and John first connected years ago 01:59 - Shared values, mutual clients, and the “no dickhead policy” 03:39 - Vok’s software development focus in regulated industries 04:17 - From social media startup to agency work 05:09 - Learning financial planning during the GFC 06:35 - Why the startup failed and what they learned 07:23 - The real lesson behind the failed venture 08:25 - Why building, failing, and risking capital mattered 09:58 - Starting Fenura while raising a family 11:42 - Early collaboration on Xplan and commission data issues 12:25 - The kinds of industries Vok now serves 13:56 - Why Vok moved from consumer software to B2B 14:29 - Why Fenura chose Vok for Advice Designer 15:33 - Why the Advice Designer problem still existed 16:32 - AI reliability, security, and software outages 17:55 - Why outages are getting more common 19:29 - AI companies, support, and product priorities 20:48 - Copilot, metered pricing, and AI cost blowouts 21:31 - Why AI spend is rising faster than cloud spend 22:34 - AI as a possible cover for overhiring 23:29 - How clients now think software should be almost free 24:26 - The danger of vibe coded software in regulated sectors 25:20 - Security review findings in a financial services client 26:52 - Why AI tools are useful but not dependable enough alone 27:33 - How AI has changed software development workflows 28:13 - Identity shifts for developers and non developers 29:52 - Paraplanners as the closest analogy to developers 31:16 - Why professionals still matter even with AI 32:49 - The risk of losing training pathways for junior talent 33:16 - People vibe coding to look productive, not to solve problems 34:19 - When vibe coding is useful for rapid concept testing 35:49 - Why people get emotionally attached to prototypes 36:57 - Building Advice Designer from taste and instinct 38:30 - Feature requests, AI, and customer expectations 39:13 - The danger of feature bloat and Frankenstein software 40:28 - Why saying no is harder but more important now 41:17 - Staying narrowly focused on one industry 42:25 - Why Fenura did not raise traditional venture capital 43:35 - Pressure to add AI features without ruining the product 44:16 - Why timing matters for AI in mature software 45:20 - Copilot’s bad first impression and its lasting impact 46:07 - The spectrum between deterministic code and AI driven systems 47:34 - Using AI inside controlled workflows rather than running the process 48:25 - Regulatory uncertainty and the need for domain expertise 49:12 - Customer patterns, churn, and a surprising female user base 50:38 - Why buyers self select into products that match their values 51:05 - The wealth tech industry’s underinvestment in technology 52:32 - Why many firms still lack maturity in assessing tech and AI 53:54 - Losing bank provided infrastructure after the Royal Commission 55:22 - The security risks of staff building software without experience 56:28 - Why combining Vok and Fenura makes strategic sense 57:16 - Deep domain expertise plus implementation capability 58:15 - Why clients value specialist partners over generalist consultancies 59:12 - AI regulation, industry change, and trusted advisors 60:05 - Why the next decade will see more software than ever before 61:10 - Why people and aligned values remain the foundation 62:09 - Trust, handshake agreements, and long term partnership 63:49 - John’s changing view on who can create software 64:54 - Claude Design as John’s most underrated tool 66:16 - Why design tools now make better presentations faster 67:31 - How to get in touch with Vok and John 68:09 - John’s podcast Drive by AI 69:02 - Writing as a way to think clearly and reduce mental load