How The Swedes Cracked Hit Songwriting and Why Most People Won't

Today's guest is the Swedish producer and songwriter behind "Problem," "Into You," "Love Me Like You Do," "No Tears Left To Cry," "Santa Tell Me," and "Unholy,". He finally sits down with Ross for an And The Writer Is interview ten years in the making. He taught himself to make music from a demo CD that came in a cereal box. A radio singing contest got him discovered, and he signed a publishing deal at 17. It then took him ten years to land his first real hit. He tells Ross how a year of playing FIFA with Shellback led to Wolf Cousins, and what Max Martin's famous "math" actually is. He also plays the voice memos behind the songs: Savan Kotecha's original whisper-chorus idea for "Problem," the first take of the "Love Me Like You Do" pre-chorus, and the glass-tapping sample that started "Unholy." He shares the stories behind "God is a woman," "Bad Blood (feat. Kendrick Lamar)," and the two-room process he and Ariana Grande used for eternal sunshine and petal. And The Writer Is... Ilya Salmanzadeh! If you've ever wondered how the biggest pop songs of the last decade actually get finished, this one's for you. JOIN THE ATWI PATREON Monthly Zoom hangs, demo feedback, special guests and 200+ archived audio episodes (Charli XCX, Sabrina Carpenter, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Shania Twain, Babyface and more): Patreon.com/andthewriteris THANKS TO OUR SPONSOR SPLICE Try Variations in the Splice Sounds plugin. It makes new versions of any Splice sample with a different structure, key and BPM, and the original creators get paid every time. Splice.com CHAPTERS 0:00 Cold open: what Max Martin's "math" really means 1:32 Welcome Ilya Salmanzadeh 3:12 What MXM is: "like Real Madrid signed me" 4:46 Jantelagen: why Swedes won't brag 9:57 Born in Iran, raised in Denmark 16:22 A cereal-box CD and teaching himself music 19:54 The hits: Problem, Into You, Unholy and more 21:32 Early influences: Tracy Chapman, Michael Jackson, hip-hop 24:50 Why the world's biggest pop writers live in Stockholm 27:14 Wanting to be an R&B artist 32:36 The radio singing contest that got him discovered 37:26 Ten years from publishing deal to first hit 39:09 Telemarketing and Apple tech support 43:08 The immigrant drive to prove he belongs 46:21 His first cut: the Bratz album 48:20 A year of FIFA with Shellback and the birth of Wolf Cousins 52:37 The MXM pop family tree 54:21 Competition vs. family inside MXM 58:40 Max Martin: "Why aren't you in LA?" 1:00:41 What Max Martin taught him about songwriting 1:03:13 "Problem": Savan Kotecha's original voice memo 1:08:59 The morning "Problem" hit #1 on iTunes 1:10:57 His father and the number he keeps seeing 1:14:31 Weeks on one pre-chorus: making "Into You" 1:21:55 "Love Me Like You Do" started as a Sunday hang 1:27:08 Producer vs. writer credits: "Bad Blood" and "Bang Bang" 1:31:42 His creative wavelength with Ariana Grande 1:32:23 "No Tears Left To Cry" breaking the pop rules 1:34:00 "God is a woman" was almost for Beyoncé and JAY-Z 1:35:48 Ariana Grande as a producer 1:37:27 "Unholy": the hotel staff, Max and his daughter 1:44:20 When a release doesn't hit 1:47:11 14-hour days: how he finishes so much music 1:48:57 Chris Martin, Coldplay and the "mind movie" 1:52:17 Why he keeps working with new artists (Tate McRae, LISA) 1:54:53 "eternal sunshine" vs. "petal": the two-room process 1:56:54 "Santa Tell Me" and chasing a Christmas classic 1:59:24 Has Ilya finally proven his worth? And The Writer Is, hosted by Ross Golan, is a podcast about the songwriters, producers and artists behind the songs you love. Instagram: instagram.com/andthewriteris Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad